Journals of the Senate
48 Elizabeth II, A.D. 1999, Canada
Journals of the Senate
Issue 148
Thursday, June 10, 1999
1:30 p.m.
The Honourable Gildas L. Molgat, Speaker
The Members convened were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, Austin, Balfour, Beaudoin, Berntson, Bolduc, Bryden, Buchanan, Butts, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Cochrane, Cohen, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, De Bané, DeWare, Di Nino, Doody, Eyton, Ferretti Barth, Fitzpatrick, Forrestall, Fraser, Gauthier, Gill, Grafstein, Graham, Grimard, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Johnson, Joyal, Kelleher, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kirby, Kolber, Kroft, Lavoie-Roux, LeBreton, Lewis, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maloney, Meighen, Mercier, Milne, Molgat, Moore, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pépin, Perrault, Poulin (Charette), Prud'homme, Rivest, Roberge, Robertson, Robichaud , (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud , (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Roche, Rompkey, Rossiter, Ruck, Simard, Sparrow, Stewart, Taylor, Tkachuk, Watt, Whelan, Wilson
The Members in attendance to business were:
The Honourable Senators
Adams, Andreychuk, Angus, *Atkins, Austin, Balfour, Beaudoin, Berntson, Bolduc, Bryden, Buchanan, Butts, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Cochrane, Cohen, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, De Bané, DeWare, Di Nino, Doody, Eyton, Ferretti Barth, Fitzpatrick, Forrestall, Fraser, Gauthier, Gill, Grafstein, Graham, Grimard, Hays, Hervieux-Payette, Johnson, Joyal, Kelleher, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kirby, Kolber, Kroft, Lavoie-Roux, LeBreton, Lewis, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maloney, Meighen, Mercier, Milne, Molgat, Moore, Murray, Nolin, Oliver, Pépin, Perrault, Poulin (Charette), Prud'homme, Rivest, Roberge, Robertson, Robichaud , (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud , (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Roche, Rompkey, Rossiter, Ruck, Simard, Sparrow, Stewart, Taylor, Tkachuk, Watt, Whelan, Wilson
PRAYERS
Tribute was paid to the Honourable Senator Whelan, P.C., who will retire from the Senate on July 11, 1999.
SENATORS' STATEMENTS
Pursuant to Rule 43(7), the Honourable Senator Murray, P.C., gave notice that he would raise a question of privilege concerning the "five-minute bell" which summoned Senators for a standing vote yesterday afternoon. Some Honourable Senators made statements.DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS
Presentation of Reports from Standing or Special Committees
The Honourable Senator Milne, Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs, presented its Twenty-fifth Report (Bill C-79, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (victims of crime) and another Act in consequence) without amendment.The Honourable Senator Milne moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Maloney, that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a third reading at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. The Honourable Senator Murray, P.C., presented the following:
THURSDAY, June 10, 1999
The Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology has the honour to present its
TWENTIETH REPORT
Your Committee, to which was referred, Bill C-66, An Act to amend the National Housing Act and the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation Act and to make a consequential amendment to another Act, has, in obedience to the Order of Reference of Tuesday, May 11, 1999, examined the said Bill and now reports the same without amendment.Attached as an appendix to this Report are the observations of your Committee on Bill C-66.
Respectfully submitted,
LOWELL MURRAY
Chairman
(The Appendix to the Report is printed as Appendix "A")The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Chalifoux, that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a third reading at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. The Honourable Senator Austin, P.C., a member of the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce, presented its Twenty-sixth Report (Bill C-67, An Act to amend the Bank Act, the Winding-up and Restructuring Act and other Acts relating to financial institutions and to make consequential amendments to other Acts) without amendment.
The Honourable Senator Austin, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Kroft, that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a third reading at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. The Honourable Senator Murray, P.C., Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology, presented its Twenty-first Report (Bill C-64, An Act to establish an indemnification program for travelling exhibitions) without amendment.
The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Maloney, that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a third reading at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. The Honourable Senator Cools, Deputy Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance, presented its Sixteenth Report (Interim) (Estimates 1999-2000).
Ordered, That the Report be printed as an Appendix to the Journals of the Senate of this day and form part of the permanent records of this House.
The Honourable Senator Cools moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Maloney, that the Report be placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Government Notices of Motions
With leave of the Senate, The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Kenny:That when the Senate adjourns today, it do stand adjourned until Monday next, June 14, 1999, at 4:00 p.m.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Introduction and First Reading of Government Bills
A Message was brought from the House of Commons with a Bill C-84, An Act to correct certain anomalies, inconsistencies and errors and to deal with other matters of a non-controversial and uncomplicated nature in the Statutes of Canada and to repeal certain Acts that have ceased to have effect, to which they desire the concurrence of the Senate.The Bill was read the first time.
The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool, that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a second reading on Monday next, June 14, 1999.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. A Message was brought from the House of Commons with a Bill C-82, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (impaired driving and related matters), to which they desire the concurrence of the Senate.
The Bill was read the first time.
The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Pépin, that the Bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a second reading on Monday next, June 14, 1999.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Bills
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Moore, seconded by the Honourable Senator Kroft, for the third reading of Bill C-71, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on February 16, 1999;And on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Bolduc, seconded by the Honourable Senator Beaudoin, that the Bill be not now read a third time but that it be amended:
(a) on pages 10 to 12, by deleting Part 3; and
(b) by renumbering Parts 4 to 9 and clauses 20 to 50 and any cross-references thereto accordingly.After debate, The question was put on the motion in amendment. With leave of the Senate, a recorded division was deferred until 5:00 p.m. on Monday next, June 14, 1999.
OTHER BUSINESS
Senate Public Bills
Orders No. 1 to 4 were called and postponed until the next sitting. Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Forrestall, seconded by the Honourable Senator Atkins, for the second reading of Bill S-19, An Act to give further recognition to the war-time service of Canadian merchant navy veterans and to provide for their fair and equitable treatment.After debate, The question was put on the motion. With leave of the Senate, a recorded division was deferred until Monday next, June 14, 1999, following the deferred division on the amendment to Bill C-71.
Commons Public Bills
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.Private Bills
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.Reports of Committees
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Maheu, seconded by the Honourable Senator Fitzpatrick, for the adoption of the Eleventh Report of the Standing Committee on Privileges, Standing Rules and Orders (restructuring of Senate committees) presented in the Senate on June 2, 1999.After debate, Further debate on the motion was adjourned until the next sitting in the name of the Honourable Senator Lawson. Consideration of the Report of the Subcommittee on Communications of the Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications entitled: "Wired to Win! Canada's Positioning Within The World's Technological Revolution", deposited with the Clerk of the Senate on May 28, 1999.
After debate, The Honourable Senator Kenny for the Honourable Senator Spivak moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Losier-Cool, that further debate on consideration of the Report be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Resuming debate on the consideration of the Sixteenth Report (Interim) of the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce entitled: "The Governance Practices of Institutional Investors", tabled in the Senate on November 19, 1998.
After debate, The Honourable Senator Kinsella for the Honourable Senator Di Nino moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator DeWare, that further debate on consideration of the Report be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. Orders No. 4 to 6 were called and postponed until the next sitting.
Other
Orders No. 79, 82 (inquiries), 143, 127 (motions), 49, 81 (inquiries), 114 (motion), 78, 68, 50, 34, 39, 64, 73, 61 and 46 (inquiries) were called and postponed until the next sitting. Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Milne calling the attention of the Senate to the lack of access to the 1906 and all subsequent censuses caused by an Act of Parliament adopted in 1906 under the Government of Sir Wilfrid Laurier.Debate concluded. Orders No. 1 and 118 (motions), 63 and 47 (inquiries) were called and postponed until the next sitting. Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Grafstein calling the attention of the Senate to the Canada-Europe Parliamentary Association (OSCE) Delegation to the Standing Committee Meeting of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE PA), held in Vienna, Austria, from January 14 to 15, 1999 and the situation in Kosovo.
After debate, Further debate on the inquiry was adjourned until the next sitting in the name of the Honourable Senator Andreychuk.
With leave of the Senate, The Honourable Senator Kinsella tabled the following:
Resolution 1244 (1999), adopted by the Security Council of the United Nations at its 4011th meeting on June 10, 1999. (English text)-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-1200S. Order No. 69 (inquiry) was called and pursuant to Rule 27(3) was dropped from the Order Paper.
QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE
Pursuant to Rule 43(8), the Senate proceeded to the consideration of the Question of Privilege of the Honourable Senator Murray, P.C., concerning the "five-minute bell" which summoned Senators for a standing vote yesterday afternoon.Debate.
SPEAKER'S RULING
Honourable senators, it is my responsibility, once I have heard sufficient argument, to determine whether or not there is a prima facie case, and then Senator Murray can move his motion, according to our rules.I will say at the outset that I thank Senator Murray for raising this matter. It is important. I appreciate the comments that have been made by every senator.
I remind you of rule 43(1), which says:
The preservation of the privileges of the Senate is the duty of every Senator. A violation of the privileges of any one Senator affects those of all Senators and the ability of the Senate to carry out its functions outlined in the Constitution Act, 1867. Action to ensure such protection takes priority over every other matter before the Senate.
Our rules are very clear on this point. Insofar as whether or not there is a prima facie case, the conditions are outlined in 43(1)(a), (b), (c) and (d).
It must be raised at the earliest opportunity: It has been. It must be a matter directly concerning the privileges of the Senate, of any committee thereof, or of any senator. It is obviously one that concerns the privileges, the right to vote, of not only the one senator who has raised it but others who have spoken.
It must be raised to seek a genuine remedy which is in the Senate's power to provide, and for which no other parliamentary process is reasonably available. That has been done, because Senator Murray told us in his oral statement that he was providing a remedy. It must be raised to correct a grave and serious breach. Anything that prevents senators from voting is a serious breach.
I therefore declare that there is a prima facie case. The Honourable Senator Murray, P.C., moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Kinsella:
That the issue of the rights of all Senators to be able to participate in standing votes in the Senate that have been requested in accordance with Rule 65(3), and the procedures followed on June 9, 1999, regarding the vote to adjourn the debate on the Eleventh Report of the Privileges, Standing Rules and Orders Committee, be referred to the Standing Committee on Privileges, Standing Rules and Orders.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
INQUIRIES
The Honourable Senator Grafstein called the attention of the Senate to the question of international law: Canada and the NATO action in the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.After debate, The Honourable Senator Grafstein moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Cook, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted. The Honourable Senator Kenny called the attention of the Senate to the issue of youth and smoking.
Debate concluded. The Honourable Senator Cohen called the attention of the Senate to a report by the National Council of Welfare entitled, Preschool Children: Promises to Keep.
After debate, The Honourable Senator Cohen for the Honourable Senator Pépin moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Kinsella, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
MOTIONS
The Honourable Senator Milne moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Butts:That the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs have power to sit while the Senate is sitting on Monday next, June 14, 1999, and that Rule 95(4) be suspended in relation thereto.
After debate, The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
MESSAGES FROM THE HOUSE OF COMMONS
A Message was brought from the House of Commons to return Bill C-55, An Act respecting advertising services supplied by foreign periodical publishers,And to acquaint the Senate that the Commons have agreed to the amendments made by the Senate to this Bill, without amendment.
REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 28(2):
Lists of various international agreements which entered into force for Canada in 1994 (together with copies of the Agreements).-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-1190.Document entitled "Canadian Security Intelligence Service-1998 Public Report".-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-1191.
Summaries of the Corporate Plan for the period 1999-2000 to 2003-04 and of the Operating and Capital Budgets for 1999-2000 of the National Capital Commission, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 125(4). -Sessional Paper No. 1/36-1192.
Summaries of the Corporate Plan for the period 1999-2000 to 2002-03 and of the Operating and Capital Budgets for 1999-2000 of the Canadian Museum of Nature, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 125(4). -Sessional Paper No. 1/36-1193.
Summaries of the Corporate Plan for the period 1999-2000 to 2003-04 and of the Operating and Capital Budgets for 1999-2000 of the National Museum of Science and Technology Corporation, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 125(4).-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-1194.
Summaries of the Corporate Plan for the period 1999-2000 to 2003-04 and of the Operating and Capital Budgets for 1999-2000 of the Canadian Museum of Civilization Corporation, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 125(4).-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-1195.
Summaries of the Corporate Plan and of the Operating and Capital Budgets for the period 1999-2000 to 2003-04 of the National Gallery of Canada and its affiliate the Canadian Museum of Contemporary Photography, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 125(4). -Sessional Paper No. 1/36-1196.
Summaries of the Corporate Plan for 1999-2000 to 2003-04 and the Capital Budget for 1999-2000 of the Canada Post Corporation, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 125(4).-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-1197.
Report of the Canada Post Corporation, together with the Auditors' Report, for the fiscal year ended March 31, 1999, pursuant to the Financial Administration Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. F-11, sbs. 150(1).-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-1198.
Reports of the Canadian International Development Agency required by the Access to Information Act and the Privacy Act for the period ended March 31, 1999, pursuant to the Access to Information Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. A-1, sbs. 72(2) and the Privacy Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. P-21, sbs. 72(2).-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-1199.
ADJOURNMENT
The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Butts:That the Senate do now adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
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Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 85(4)
Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and TechnologyThe names of the Honourable Senators Doody and Pépin substituted for those of the Honourable Senators Balfour and Maloney (June 9).
Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs
The name of the Honourable Senator Lewis substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Bryden (June 9).
The names of the Honourable Senators Bryden, Lewis and Watt substituted for those of the Honourable Senators Lewis, Grafstein and Pearson (June 10).
Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce
The name of the Honourable Senator Angus substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Bolduc (June 10).